Comments on: Evaluating charter schools http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/ Exploring how to get real change for your dollar. Thu, 17 May 2012 06:33:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Crystal http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13182 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:27:50 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13182 I agree 100% with Matt (see his post below). No one, other than Michelle, has offered up any serious advice to these two because no one can take Givewell seriously. Surely there are education evaluators reading this, but why would they offer up their decades worth of experience to a couple of kids with no experience in the field? Academics and educators share their wisdom and research all of the time in the form of published work, at conferences, etc. Believe it or not, Givewell isn't the only forum for information sharing. I suspect these two are going to have a really tough time trying to get anyone to participate. Matt says: January 17th, 2008 at 4:42 pm It’s one thing to encourage feedback. It’s another to have a research effort so flawed that it requires a massive public intervention. If you want this to be a public effort, make it a public effort. Provide us with some incentive to do your work for you. Make a wiki, say, so we feel like we own the contributions we make instead of like we’re feeding a parasitic host. And lose the 65k/yr babysitters if we’re the ones you want doing the heavy lifting - deciding your whole methodology. Same goes for branding: if this is going to be a community instead of a private concern, it’s got to be represented differently. What I want you to do is lose the whiz-kid branding, the corporate facade, and make this place a user-driven public resource, spurred by the same curiosity that made the kids start this up in the first place. That’s a pipe dream, though. I expect business as usual. I agree 100% with Matt (see his post below). No one, other than Michelle, has offered up any serious advice to these two because no one can take Givewell seriously. Surely there are education evaluators reading this, but why would they offer up their decades worth of experience to a couple of kids with no experience in the field? Academics and educators share their wisdom and research all of the time in the form of published work, at conferences, etc. Believe it or not, Givewell isn’t the only forum for information sharing. I suspect these two are going to have a really tough time trying to get anyone to participate.

Matt says:

January 17th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

It’s one thing to encourage feedback. It’s another to have a research effort so flawed that it requires a massive public intervention. If you want this to be a public effort, make it a public effort. Provide us with some incentive to do your work for you. Make a wiki, say, so we feel like we own the contributions we make instead of like we’re feeding a parasitic host. And lose the 65k/yr babysitters if we’re the ones you want doing the heavy lifting - deciding your whole methodology. Same goes for branding: if this is going to be a community instead of a private concern, it’s got to be represented differently. What I want you to do is lose the whiz-kid branding, the corporate facade, and make this place a user-driven public resource, spurred by the same curiosity that made the kids start this up in the first place.

That’s a pipe dream, though. I expect business as usual.

]]> by: ericb http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13179 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:55:41 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13179 <i>BTW — word on the street is that the Chronicle of Philanthropy is going to do a *print* story on the Givewell Scam</i> The Chronicle of Philanthropy: <a href="http://philanthropy.com/premium/articles/v20/i07/07005401.htm" rel="nofollow">Charities Urged to Set Online Guidelines Following One Group's 'Lapse'</a> (subscription required). BTW — word on the street is that the Chronicle of Philanthropy is going to do a *print* story on the Givewell Scam

The Chronicle of Philanthropy: Charities Urged to Set Online Guidelines Following One Group’s ‘Lapse’ (subscription required).

]]> by: Erich Riesenberg http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13171 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:46:31 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13171 Sean Stannard-Stockton writes: They are not doing anything different than any of the many foundations in the world. Except they are letting you in on their thinking. ... GiveWell is trying to decide which nonprofits to give money too. Almost every American makes a decision like this every year. Are you truly this clueless Sean? Givewell is not merely letting us in on their thinking, they are in fact telling people to follow their advice, and ridiculing people who reach different conclusions, in much the way you do. You need to pick a new horse, Sean. Sean Stannard-Stockton writes: They are not doing anything different than any of the many foundations in the world. Except they are letting you in on their thinking. … GiveWell is trying to decide which nonprofits to give money too. Almost every American makes a decision like this every year.

Are you truly this clueless Sean? Givewell is not merely letting us in on their thinking, they are in fact telling people to follow their advice, and ridiculing people who reach different conclusions, in much the way you do. You need to pick a new horse, Sean.

]]> by: Mitch Nauffts http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13106 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:11:06 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13106 Josh -- Yes, maybe I was being lazy, but the language and tone of many of the posts from the "waste of time" camp sounded suspiciously familiar. Otherwise, I agree with you 100 percent. Josh –

Yes, maybe I was being lazy, but the language and tone of many of the posts from the “waste of time” camp sounded suspiciously familiar. Otherwise, I agree with you 100 percent.

]]> by: Josh Millard http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13105 Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:05:52 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13105 Mitch, your <a href="http://pndblog.typepad.com/pndblog/2008/01/he-who-liveds-b.html" rel="nofollow">initial take</a> on Givewell and Metafilter</a> wasn't exactly glowing, so I'm not expecting some sudden reversal here, but you're being awefully lazy about blaming the juvenility here on Metafilter -- and failing to credit <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=215#comment-12677" rel="nofollow">the civil discussion</a> from those of use who <i>are</i> interested in the conversation. I can't see any reason why Bob et al <i>shouldn't</i> moderate the true crap comments here -- one of the nimrods you're talking about <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=215#comment-12799" rel="nofollow">is trying to start a fight</a> about it, essentially -- but the goal should be to keep out noise, not criticism, and I can see a pretty clear distinction in the comments here between those two camps. Mitch, your initial take on Givewell and Metafilter wasn’t exactly glowing, so I’m not expecting some sudden reversal here, but you’re being awefully lazy about blaming the juvenility here on Metafilter — and failing to credit the civil discussion from those of use who are interested in the conversation.

I can’t see any reason why Bob et al shouldn’t moderate the true crap comments here — one of the nimrods you’re talking about is trying to start a fight about it, essentially — but the goal should be to keep out noise, not criticism, and I can see a pretty clear distinction in the comments here between those two camps.

]]> by: Mitch Nauffts http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13104 Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:30:47 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13104 I'm astounded, but not surprised, by the juvenility of most of the posts to this thread. Elementary school education in this country is failing way too many kids, and well-meaning people -- including, in their own earnest way, Holden and Elie -- are doing their best to identify solutions to the problem. And what do self-styled vigilantes from online "communities" (I use the term loosely) have to add to the conversation? Scatalogical references and insults. Holden and Elie, maybe it's time you guys thought about moderating your comments and creating a space for a civil discussion about these issues. Don't worry about the nimrods; they can always hang out at MetaFilter. I’m astounded, but not surprised, by the juvenility of most of the posts to this thread. Elementary school education in this country is failing way too many kids, and well-meaning people — including, in their own earnest way, Holden and Elie — are doing their best to identify solutions to the problem. And what do self-styled vigilantes from online “communities” (I use the term loosely) have to add to the conversation? Scatalogical references and insults. Holden and Elie, maybe it’s time you guys thought about moderating your comments and creating a space for a civil discussion about these issues. Don’t worry about the nimrods; they can always hang out at MetaFilter.

]]> by: Removed http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13102 Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:03:50 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-13102 <em>Inappropriate comment removed - see it <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?page_id=218#Comment4" rel="nofollow">here</a></em> Inappropriate comment removed - see it here

]]> by: MoonOverJackson http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-12930 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:10:14 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-12930 BTW -- word on the street is that the Chronicle of Philanthropy is going to do a *print* story on the Givewell Scam. Rock on! BTW — word on the street is that the Chronicle of Philanthropy is going to do a *print* story on the Givewell Scam. Rock on!

]]> by: MoonOverJackson http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-12929 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:09:34 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-12929 LOL. This is still going on? I think GiveWell had best fold up the tent, find a name that DOESN'T belong to another legitimate operation, and come back in with a project to evaluate HEDGE FUNDS. You guys are so over. No one will ever take you seriously again. LOL. This is still going on? I think GiveWell had best fold up the tent, find a name that DOESN’T belong to another legitimate operation, and come back in with a project to evaluate HEDGE FUNDS.

You guys are so over. No one will ever take you seriously again.

]]> by: Sean Stannard-Stockton http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-12918 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:15:54 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2008/01/15/evaluating-charter-schools/#comment-12918 Something for people to consider. Whether you think Elie and Holden are qualified or not to evaluate anything, every donors (foundation or individual) in the world is evaluating nonprofit programs before donating. GiveWell is just showing you what they are thinking. They are not doing anything different than any of the many foundations in the world. Except they are letting you in on their thinking. Michelle, I've been very impressed with your comments across the range of sites discussing GiveWell. But when you say, "What you’re seeking to do is extremely ambitious." I have to disagree. GiveWell is trying to decide which nonprofits to give money too. Almost every American makes a decision like this every year. Something for people to consider. Whether you think Elie and Holden are qualified or not to evaluate anything, every donors (foundation or individual) in the world is evaluating nonprofit programs before donating. GiveWell is just showing you what they are thinking.

They are not doing anything different than any of the many foundations in the world. Except they are letting you in on their thinking.

Michelle, I’ve been very impressed with your comments across the range of sites discussing GiveWell. But when you say, “What you’re seeking to do is extremely ambitious.” I have to disagree. GiveWell is trying to decide which nonprofits to give money too. Almost every American makes a decision like this every year.

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