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	<title>Comments on: Donating to Gates - against its will</title>
	<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/</link>
	<description>Exploring how to get real change for your dollar.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 07:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Holden</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-135583</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 15:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-135583</guid>
					<description>Jason, unfortunately I think that the risk of having no impact - or even doing harm - is unavoidable when you give to an organization working on difficult issues like these.  Recent discussions of our two top-rated charities, &lt;a href="http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/30/villagereach/" rel="nofollow"&gt;VillageReach&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=509" rel="nofollow"&gt;Stop TB&lt;/a&gt;, are open that we aren't 100% confident.

What's important to us is first and foremost that an organization shares the information necessary to get a sense for how its work is going.  That enables us to at least make the best bet possible.  The reason I don't donate to Gates (aside from its request that people not donate) is that it shares so little information.  But I think expecting there to be no concerns about its work, or expecting it to have had short-term effects on GNP, would be holding it to an unrealistic standard.

One more note - I think the criticism leveled by the article you linked to is overblown (see our &lt;a href="http://blog.givewell.org/2007/01/20/21/" rel="nofollow"&gt;2007 post on 'responsible investing'&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, unfortunately I think that the risk of having no impact - or even doing harm - is unavoidable when you give to an organization working on difficult issues like these.  Recent discussions of our two top-rated charities, <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/30/villagereach/" rel="nofollow">VillageReach</a> and <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=509" rel="nofollow">Stop TB</a>, are open that we aren&#8217;t 100% confident.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s important to us is first and foremost that an organization shares the information necessary to get a sense for how its work is going.  That enables us to at least make the best bet possible.  The reason I don&#8217;t donate to Gates (aside from its request that people not donate) is that it shares so little information.  But I think expecting there to be no concerns about its work, or expecting it to have had short-term effects on GNP, would be holding it to an unrealistic standard.</p>
<p>One more note - I think the criticism leveled by the article you linked to is overblown (see our <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/2007/01/20/21/" rel="nofollow">2007 post on &#8216;responsible investing&#8217;</a>).
</p>
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		<title>by: Jason Fehr</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-135398</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 16:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-135398</guid>
					<description>For the reasons Holden had mentioned, I also found it surprising that the Gates foundation doesn't allow donations.

I had planned to give to them a year ago, using the same reasoning as Warren Buffet (that the foundation can find a better use for it than I can).  But, besides the fact that they have stated that they don't want more money, there had been some bad press (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/07/nation/na-gatesx07) and lots of the standard criticisms (diverting skilled workers from hospitals to Gates AIDS clinics because they were paying workers too much, etc.)  

Economist William Easterly also argued at the World Economic Forum in 2007 that the Gates Foundation hadn't had an impact since its efforts hadn't had an effect on GNP.  Gates disagreed.  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3635653767205809762#

Somehow, the idea of giving money to an organization that could be having no impact (or even causing harm depending on who you ask) didn't sit well with me.  This led me to discover GiveWell...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the reasons Holden had mentioned, I also found it surprising that the Gates foundation doesn&#8217;t allow donations.</p>
<p>I had planned to give to them a year ago, using the same reasoning as Warren Buffet (that the foundation can find a better use for it than I can).  But, besides the fact that they have stated that they don&#8217;t want more money, there had been some bad press (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/07/nation/na-gatesx07) and lots of the standard criticisms (diverting skilled workers from hospitals to Gates AIDS clinics because they were paying workers too much, etc.)  </p>
<p>Economist William Easterly also argued at the World Economic Forum in 2007 that the Gates Foundation hadn&#8217;t had an impact since its efforts hadn&#8217;t had an effect on GNP.  Gates disagreed.  <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3635653767205809762#" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3635653767205809762#</a></p>
<p>Somehow, the idea of giving money to an organization that could be having no impact (or even causing harm depending on who you ask) didn&#8217;t sit well with me.  This led me to discover GiveWell&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Holden</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-85270</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-85270</guid>
					<description>Ian, I don't follow.  The Gates Foundation encourages people to make unrestricted gifts to specific charities (the same ones it grants).  For it to make these gifts itself, instead, would presumably require no additional costs other than literally accounting.

I find Carl's explanation to be most likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, I don&#8217;t follow.  The Gates Foundation encourages people to make unrestricted gifts to specific charities (the same ones it grants).  For it to make these gifts itself, instead, would presumably require no additional costs other than literally accounting.</p>
<p>I find Carl&#8217;s explanation to be most likely.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ian Turner</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-85259</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-85259</guid>
					<description>Holden,

It's the difference between Warren Buffett investing $160 billion versus Warren Buffett investing $160 thousand. When you're a smaller investor (or a smaller donor), it opens up opportunities to pursue options that are too small to warrant attention from a large donor. Again returning to the financial element, TSTC is up 428% in the last year, but their market cap is so small that no institutional investor (including Mr. Buffett) would ever have been able to buy a year ago.

Cheers,

--Ian

Full Disclosure: I own shares of TSTC and Berkshire Hathaway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holden,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the difference between Warren Buffett investing $160 billion versus Warren Buffett investing $160 thousand. When you&#8217;re a smaller investor (or a smaller donor), it opens up opportunities to pursue options that are too small to warrant attention from a large donor. Again returning to the financial element, TSTC is up 428% in the last year, but their market cap is so small that no institutional investor (including Mr. Buffett) would ever have been able to buy a year ago.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>&#8211;Ian</p>
<p>Full Disclosure: I own shares of TSTC and Berkshire Hathaway.
</p>
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		<title>by: Holden</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-65047</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-65047</guid>
					<description>Thanks for all the comments.

Sean, I've edited the post to incorporate your note.

Ian and Jonathan: the Gates Foundation may be struggling to give away the money well, but it still would seem to me that they're better equipped to do so than donors who are explicitly looking to outsource the decision to them.  (These donors apparently don't perceive themselves to have any more capacity to find worthy recipients than Gates does.)  It's particularly strange that the Foundation encourages individual donors to contribute to its grantees' "stable capital," when the Foundation could presumably do the same.

Carl, it's true that being perceived as soliciting funds would come with additional reporting/filing requirements.  Your explanation seems likely to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the comments.</p>
<p>Sean, I&#8217;ve edited the post to incorporate your note.</p>
<p>Ian and Jonathan: the Gates Foundation may be struggling to give away the money well, but it still would seem to me that they&#8217;re better equipped to do so than donors who are explicitly looking to outsource the decision to them.  (These donors apparently don&#8217;t perceive themselves to have any more capacity to find worthy recipients than Gates does.)  It&#8217;s particularly strange that the Foundation encourages individual donors to contribute to its grantees&#8217; &#8220;stable capital,&#8221; when the Foundation could presumably do the same.</p>
<p>Carl, it&#8217;s true that being perceived as soliciting funds would come with additional reporting/filing requirements.  Your explanation seems likely to me.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jonathan Mark</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64982</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64982</guid>
					<description>I understand the Gates Foundation statement to mean: "We have a massive amount of money and we only give away 5% per year while investing 95%, so it doesn't really make sense to give us any more."

This seems like sound reasoning to me.

I would love to see more publications with well-supported recommendations for international giving.  It would be great to see this from the Gates Foundation or anyone else!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the Gates Foundation statement to mean: &#8220;We have a massive amount of money and we only give away 5% per year while investing 95%, so it doesn&#8217;t really make sense to give us any more.&#8221;</p>
<p>This seems like sound reasoning to me.</p>
<p>I would love to see more publications with well-supported recommendations for international giving.  It would be great to see this from the Gates Foundation or anyone else!
</p>
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		<title>by: Ian Turner</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64889</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64889</guid>
					<description>The reason the Gates Foundation doesn't want people to give to it is simple: They are required to give away 5% of assets every year in order to preserve foundation status, and are running flat out just to meet this requirement. The more money people give to them, the harder it will be to grant away 5% every year.

The second implication of these facts is that giving money to the Gates Foundation indirectly dilutes the quality of their grants; if in a given year the Foundation only sees $100m of quality grant opportunities but is required by law to grant $150m, the extra $50m will not be spent as efficiently.

That said, I didn't know it was possible at all to give to the Foundation. I'll give that a second look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the Gates Foundation doesn&#8217;t want people to give to it is simple: They are required to give away 5% of assets every year in order to preserve foundation status, and are running flat out just to meet this requirement. The more money people give to them, the harder it will be to grant away 5% every year.</p>
<p>The second implication of these facts is that giving money to the Gates Foundation indirectly dilutes the quality of their grants; if in a given year the Foundation only sees $100m of quality grant opportunities but is required by law to grant $150m, the extra $50m will not be spent as efficiently.</p>
<p>That said, I didn&#8217;t know it was possible at all to give to the Foundation. I&#8217;ll give that a second look.
</p>
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		<title>by: Carl Shulman</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64888</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64888</guid>
					<description>E.g.:
http://www.irs.gov/charities/foundations/article/0,,id=141454,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E.g.:<br />
<a href="http://www.irs.gov/charities/foundations/article/0,,id=141454,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.irs.gov/charities/foundations/article/0,,id=141454,00.html</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Carl Shulman</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64887</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64887</guid>
					<description>I find it difficult to reconcile this statement with the Foundation's acceptance of Warren Buffett's eleven figure contribution. If Warren Buffett thought that Gates would manage his charitable activities better than he could, why should the typical impact-focused donor do otherwise?

I think the real reason for the ludicrous cited language may be that there are legal issues and obligations associated with a private foundation actively soliciting donations, and officially discouraging donations provides a shield against trouble. A threat to the tax-exempt status of the Foundation would be a disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it difficult to reconcile this statement with the Foundation&#8217;s acceptance of Warren Buffett&#8217;s eleven figure contribution. If Warren Buffett thought that Gates would manage his charitable activities better than he could, why should the typical impact-focused donor do otherwise?</p>
<p>I think the real reason for the ludicrous cited language may be that there are legal issues and obligations associated with a private foundation actively soliciting donations, and officially discouraging donations provides a shield against trouble. A threat to the tax-exempt status of the Foundation would be a disaster.
</p>
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		<title>by: Sean Stannard-Stockton</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64884</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.givewell.org/2009/06/09/donating-to-gates-against-its-will/#comment-64884</guid>
					<description>Super excellent post! You said it all better than I did. One small point, private foundations are required to publish the names and addresses of all donors over $5,000. You can find this list for the Gates Foundation in their 990 (for 2007). However, the 990 for 2008 (when they received the $10.4 mil) is not yet available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Super excellent post! You said it all better than I did. One small point, private foundations are required to publish the names and addresses of all donors over $5,000. You can find this list for the Gates Foundation in their 990 (for 2007). However, the 990 for 2008 (when they received the $10.4 mil) is not yet available.
</p>
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