Comments on: Kudos to Ken Berger http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/ Exploring how to get real change for your dollar. Thu, 17 May 2012 07:33:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Erich Riesenberg http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-92335 Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:05:40 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-92335 Givewell has slammed Chairty Navigator for years. Didn't you slam them anonymously when you had the astroturf scandal? Givewell has slammed Chairty Navigator for years.

Didn’t you slam them anonymously when you had the astroturf scandal?

]]> by: James Edward Dillard http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89803 Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:29:14 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89803 All good points. We'll see where they go from here. All good points. We’ll see where they go from here.

]]> by: Holden http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89634 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:43:01 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89634 James, we haven't gotten off his back. The post is "Kudos to Ken Berger", not "Use Charity Navigator." Moreover, I think the post is clear about where we stand on Charity Navigator's ratings as they're currently constituted. If not, I'll be clear now: we think they're near-useless. We've praised Kiva (<a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=422" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=421" rel="nofollow">here</a>) as well as criticizing it. We try to highlight the unusually good and the unusually bad, sometimes within the same organization. Praising or criticizing a specific person or action shouldn't be read as giving an overall thumbs-up/thumbs-down to the associated organization. James, we haven’t gotten off his back. The post is “Kudos to Ken Berger”, not “Use Charity Navigator.” Moreover, I think the post is clear about where we stand on Charity Navigator’s ratings as they’re currently constituted. If not, I’ll be clear now: we think they’re near-useless.

We’ve praised Kiva (here and here) as well as criticizing it. We try to highlight the unusually good and the unusually bad, sometimes within the same organization. Praising or criticizing a specific person or action shouldn’t be read as giving an overall thumbs-up/thumbs-down to the associated organization.

]]> by: James Edward Dillard http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89617 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:59:22 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89617 Check out the comment he made to my response on his blog: they "MAY dial down" the emphasis on overhead. I understand that it's important for you, your project and your funders to play nice here, but it's frustrating to watch you call out organizations like Kiva/Acumen fund who are a hell of a lot better than most and then applaud while an organization that misleads millions of donors/dollars annually makes a verbal commitment to potentially change. So he signed on for your pledge, that's awesome. You know what would be better? Shutting down his site until they have something worthy of the hard working people who try to make an impact every day. Don't get off his back now -- the non-profit sector and the people we serve deserve better. Check out the comment he made to my response on his blog: they “MAY dial down” the emphasis on overhead.

I understand that it’s important for you, your project and your funders to play nice here, but it’s frustrating to watch you call out organizations like Kiva/Acumen fund who are a hell of a lot better than most and then applaud while an organization that misleads millions of donors/dollars annually makes a verbal commitment to potentially change.

So he signed on for your pledge, that’s awesome. You know what would be better? Shutting down his site until they have something worthy of the hard working people who try to make an impact every day. Don’t get off his back now — the non-profit sector and the people we serve deserve better.

]]> by: Holden http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89610 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:26:24 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89610 James, we aren't taking him at his word. We will be examining and critiquing Charity Navigator's new ratings if and when they're operational. Until they are, we will not suggest that any donors use Charity Navigator for their giving decisions. What we are giving Ken credit for is making a commitment that can't be un-made. It's easy for neutral observers to see and talk about the problems with financial metrics. It's much harder - and thus more admirable - for someone who runs an organization that has made its brand off such metrics. Ken is speaking the truth despite organizational incentives to do otherwise. We also give credit to charities that do this, even when we have other concerns about them (examples <a href="http://blog.givewell.org/?p=469" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.givewell.org/international/charities/special-recognition#DoctorswithoutBorders" rel="nofollow">here</a>). James, we aren’t taking him at his word. We will be examining and critiquing Charity Navigator’s new ratings if and when they’re operational. Until they are, we will not suggest that any donors use Charity Navigator for their giving decisions.

What we are giving Ken credit for is making a commitment that can’t be un-made. It’s easy for neutral observers to see and talk about the problems with financial metrics. It’s much harder - and thus more admirable - for someone who runs an organization that has made its brand off such metrics.

Ken is speaking the truth despite organizational incentives to do otherwise. We also give credit to charities that do this, even when we have other concerns about them (examples here and here).

]]> by: James Edward Dillard http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89607 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:13:49 +0000 http://blog.givewell.org/2009/12/01/kudos-to-ken-berger/#comment-89607 Why is everyone so happy for Ken Berger? He's only proving that he's not an ostrich (head in the sand). Let's see what they actually come up with in terms of ratings before we celebrate him. On Ken's blog he asked me to give him a break because he's been talking about impact for a year now... guess that makes him better than the rest of us who thought that was the point. Talk or no talk, this isn't a bold move. You're willing to criticize non profits like Acumen or Smile Train simply because they don't give enough information on their site, but you're willing to take him at his word? Come on. Why is everyone so happy for Ken Berger? He’s only proving that he’s not an ostrich (head in the sand). Let’s see what they actually come up with in terms of ratings before we celebrate him.

On Ken’s blog he asked me to give him a break because he’s been talking about impact for a year now… guess that makes him better than the rest of us who thought that was the point.

Talk or no talk, this isn’t a bold move. You’re willing to criticize non profits like Acumen or Smile Train simply because they don’t give enough information on their site, but you’re willing to take him at his word? Come on.

]]>