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	<title>Comments on: GiveWell Labs Update and Priority Causes</title>
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	<description>Exploring how to get real change for your dollar.</description>
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		<title>By: Colin Rust</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-292375</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Rust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-292375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Holden, thanks for the reply.

I probably should have just left the example at: How should we think about the tradeoff between saving non-human species from extinction and saving human lives?  One&#039;s answer may depend on the species in question.  One might value megafauna, tree frogs or insect species more or less than each other.  I didn&#039;t mean to suggest that all species are equally valuable, though I certainly see where you&#039;re coming from with that interpretation of what I wrote.      

One kind of answer to this sort of question is to say that humanitarian giving and environmental giving (not primarily motivated by benefits for people) are incommensurable, that it isn&#039;t really possible to give a clear rational basis for weighing one against the other. That&#039;s how I read your statement about being &quot;primarily interested in humanitarian giving&quot;.  And maybe incommensurability is the right answer and it&#039;s just a pure value judgment with no &quot;correct&quot; answer.  Still, it&#039;s worth noting that&#039;s a kind of answer that Givewell rejects in other contexts.  E.g. you forcefully (and I think effectively) reject starting points like &quot;I&#039;m passionate about education, therefore I&#039;m going to try to find the best education charity to give to.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holden, thanks for the reply.</p>
<p>I probably should have just left the example at: How should we think about the tradeoff between saving non-human species from extinction and saving human lives?  One&#8217;s answer may depend on the species in question.  One might value megafauna, tree frogs or insect species more or less than each other.  I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest that all species are equally valuable, though I certainly see where you&#8217;re coming from with that interpretation of what I wrote.      </p>
<p>One kind of answer to this sort of question is to say that humanitarian giving and environmental giving (not primarily motivated by benefits for people) are incommensurable, that it isn&#8217;t really possible to give a clear rational basis for weighing one against the other. That&#8217;s how I read your statement about being &#8220;primarily interested in humanitarian giving&#8221;.  And maybe incommensurability is the right answer and it&#8217;s just a pure value judgment with no &#8220;correct&#8221; answer.  Still, it&#8217;s worth noting that&#8217;s a kind of answer that Givewell rejects in other contexts.  E.g. you forcefully (and I think effectively) reject starting points like &#8220;I&#8217;m passionate about education, therefore I&#8217;m going to try to find the best education charity to give to.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Holden</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-287474</link>
		<dc:creator>Holden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 14:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-287474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Colin, I don&#039;t follow your reasoning. Say there are two different species with equal intrinsic moral value. Species A has a population of 10 trillion; species B has a population of 10. Are you saying that saving the lives of 10% of Species A is as valuable as saving the lives of 10% of Species B (I.e., that saving a single Species B life is a trillion times as valuable as saving a Species A life)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin, I don&#8217;t follow your reasoning. Say there are two different species with equal intrinsic moral value. Species A has a population of 10 trillion; species B has a population of 10. Are you saying that saving the lives of 10% of Species A is as valuable as saving the lives of 10% of Species B (I.e., that saving a single Species B life is a trillion times as valuable as saving a Species A life)?</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Rust</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-286236</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Rust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 02:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-286236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post.  But I do think it would be helpful to expand on this (as relates to environmental conservation):

&quot;Current GiveWell staff are primarily interested in humanitarian giving&quot;

For example, let&#039;s say for argument&#039;s sake it takes $1 million to save a species from extinction and the same amount of money would save a thousand human lives out of a population of 7 billion.  How would you respond to someone who argues that while human lives are more valuable, they&#039;re (we&#039;re) not 7 million times more valuable (as the above numbers might crudely suggest although that&#039;s obviously far from a necessary conclusion to put it mildly)?

I&#039;d (imperfectly) analogize the conservation vs. humanitarian decision to the local vs. global humanitarian one.  You rightly challenge people and organizations that decide up front with minimal reflection they want to give locally.   You argue that because you can get such a greater bang for the buck in terms of human welfare overseas, that must overwhelm other considerations.  (By other considerations I mean e.g. the feeling of a greater moral responsibility to those closer to home and/or a greater confidence that one understands local problems and what will truly help.)

Bottom line:  I think it would helpful to analyze and flesh out the moral intuition that leads you to prioritize humanitarian interventions.

I&#039;m not pretending I have any answers here, by the way.  In my own charitable giving, I&#039;ve moved towards more of an emphasis on global health intervention while still giving significantly to local charities and relatively little to conservation.  But I do think these are important questions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  But I do think it would be helpful to expand on this (as relates to environmental conservation):</p>
<p>&#8220;Current GiveWell staff are primarily interested in humanitarian giving&#8221;</p>
<p>For example, let&#8217;s say for argument&#8217;s sake it takes $1 million to save a species from extinction and the same amount of money would save a thousand human lives out of a population of 7 billion.  How would you respond to someone who argues that while human lives are more valuable, they&#8217;re (we&#8217;re) not 7 million times more valuable (as the above numbers might crudely suggest although that&#8217;s obviously far from a necessary conclusion to put it mildly)?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d (imperfectly) analogize the conservation vs. humanitarian decision to the local vs. global humanitarian one.  You rightly challenge people and organizations that decide up front with minimal reflection they want to give locally.   You argue that because you can get such a greater bang for the buck in terms of human welfare overseas, that must overwhelm other considerations.  (By other considerations I mean e.g. the feeling of a greater moral responsibility to those closer to home and/or a greater confidence that one understands local problems and what will truly help.)</p>
<p>Bottom line:  I think it would helpful to analyze and flesh out the moral intuition that leads you to prioritize humanitarian interventions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not pretending I have any answers here, by the way.  In my own charitable giving, I&#8217;ve moved towards more of an emphasis on global health intervention while still giving significantly to local charities and relatively little to conservation.  But I do think these are important questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hurford</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-284872</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Hurford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 06:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-284872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, what do you see being the potential value to donating to meta-causes, as in causes that aim to get more people interested in donating to causes (Giving What We Can, arguably GiveWell itself, etc.)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, what do you see being the potential value to donating to meta-causes, as in causes that aim to get more people interested in donating to causes (Giving What We Can, arguably GiveWell itself, etc.)?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hurford</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-284871</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Hurford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 06:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-284871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d love to see more elaboration on animal welfare work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to see more elaboration on animal welfare work.</p>
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		<title>By: David Barry</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-284709</link>
		<dc:creator>David Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 10:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-284709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I second Frank Hecker&#039;s comment about Michael Nielsen and I thoroughly recommend &quot;Reinventing Discovery&quot; (Nielsen was a star at the uni I was a student at, but I don&#039;t think I&#039;m biased because of this).  Open-access journals are only one part of his vision for the future of science research - he believes (and argues convincingly) that research can be made vastly more efficient through organising better collaboration and data-sharing between what are currently rival research groups.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Frank Hecker&#8217;s comment about Michael Nielsen and I thoroughly recommend &#8220;Reinventing Discovery&#8221; (Nielsen was a star at the uni I was a student at, but I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m biased because of this).  Open-access journals are only one part of his vision for the future of science research &#8211; he believes (and argues convincingly) that research can be made vastly more efficient through organising better collaboration and data-sharing between what are currently rival research groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Hecker</title>
		<link>http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/comment-page-1/#comment-284602</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Hecker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 19:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.givewell.org/2012/05/09/givewell-labs-update-and-priority-causes/#comment-284602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the meta-research area is well worth looking into, and dovetails nicely with some of the issues people have raised in connection with better ways to fund scientific research. I&#039;ll be interested to see what you all report as a result of that investigation. (Incidentally, one of the people I&#039;ve enjoyed reading on this topic is Michael Nielsen, author of &quot;Reinventing Discovery&quot;. Definitely a person to talk to if he&#039;s not already on your list.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the meta-research area is well worth looking into, and dovetails nicely with some of the issues people have raised in connection with better ways to fund scientific research. I&#8217;ll be interested to see what you all report as a result of that investigation. (Incidentally, one of the people I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading on this topic is Michael Nielsen, author of &#8220;Reinventing Discovery&#8221;. Definitely a person to talk to if he&#8217;s not already on your list.)</p>
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